Building Trust and Team Culture in AEC with Matt Webster

What separates a good construction project from a truly exceptional one often has nothing to do with blueprints and everything to do with people.

Matt Webster, Owner of Sterling Builders Group, joins Joe Walker for a thoughtful conversation about the leadership principles that have defined his career across the military, higher education facilities management, consulting, and now commercial construction. From his time leading organizational transformation at the University of Florida to building systems and culture at his own company, Matt gets into how emotional intelligence, radical transparency, and intentional team building are the real drivers of project success in the AEC industry.

Whether you lead a project team, run a firm, or work directly with clients in the design and construction industry, this episode offers a grounded look at what high performance really takes. 

Topics discussed in this episode:

• Leadership in construction
• Emotional intelligence in AEC
• High-performing teams
• Agile mindset
• Construction project management
• Owner-contractor relationships
• Team culture
• Organizational change management

Connect with Matt Webster:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/matthew-webster-93486012/

https://www.sterling-built.com/

Pitch a Podcast Idea to Joe: jwalker@walker-arch.com

As always, we want to hear from you! Share your own experiences and insights on environments that have positively or negatively impacted your work. Remember, we're all on this agile journey together, and together we can make the world a more agile place, one conversation and design solution at a time.

Tune in now to the Design for An Agile World podcast and join the conversation! Don't forget to subscribe and leave your feedback. Let's make the world a more agile place!

Transcript

Joe Walker: so welcome everyone to Design for an Agile World.

I'm your host, Joe Walker, and I'm pretty excited today to share a conversation with, my friend and colleague for many years, actually my entire career, Matt Webster. he's, had, several different careers since we've known each other. and most recently really, uh, starting up Sterling Builders Group.

So, taking over that and, applying what I've always seen out of Matt as a real unique perspective to get the best performance out of people. so really I'd like, Matt, why don't you just, tell us who you are and kind of, what's going on in your life now, and, some things that our listeners might be interested in.

Matt Webster: Sure. No, thank you, Joe. And, and, you know, again, excited to be here. And like you said, the, the years that we spent together, we've had lots of candid conversations, through those years. And, and many people might say those were difficult conversations, uh, you know- Several ... and there's several.

And there's, there's books out there that, that we could quote, but the reality is We started having those before I probably learned how to have those. 

Joe Walker: Mm-hmm. 

Matt Webster: You know, and I think that we could walk away from a conversation and not take it personal and realize that we're really there about the client, the job, you know, the goal- of what we're trying to do. And that's, that goal might have been a, a subset, the week or the month- Mm-hmm ... or, or, or the overall client satisfaction. But, to be able to be direct, to a point, transparent, vulnerable, Mm-hmm ... you know, and, and sometimes harsh.

Yeah. You know, you, you could say harsh, but I mean the reality is it's, it's kind of that gift of feedback that we don't often have the relationships to have with people, you know? But it moves us forward and- Yeah ... and I think that's what then- has helped me navigate, kind of life.

And sometimes I know I can see expressions on people's faces where it might have been hurtful, but that's never the intent. Yeah. The intent is to get to clarity. 

Joe Walker: Well, that's like the most important thing. It, I mean, you used the word like maybe it didn't land well or whether it was harsh or whatever, but it's really not.

It's about being ultra clear, right? Yes. And kind of dropping those filters and just say, "I need this to happen." Yes. And just being able to communicate that. Yeah. 

Matt Webster: Yeah, absolutely. And, over the years, you know, I've spent, I've spent a few years in the consulting realm and, and give a lot of credit to Velocity Advisory Group.

and they were my coach and mentor before working for them. But in that time working for them is where I was able to polish that emotional intelligence. 

Joe Walker: Mm-hmm. 

Matt Webster: You know? And, when you get further in your career, you realize, it's less about the technical aspect of what I know and being right more about conveying the message where others think they're right- Right

and it's the right thing for the project. 

Joe Walker: Absolutely, yeah, yeah. What's the best outcome that we can achieve? 

Matt Webster: Right. And, and, yeah, I think one of the things I, you wherever I've been and, if it's in the consulting world or the businesses now or where I just left at UF, it was if you're doing it with the best intent of, let's say, UF in mind, you're gonna be okay.

Yeah. You're not gonna get fired Right ... because you did something with the best intent for UF. And I, I use UF because when I was there talking to them, there was a culture of no versus a culture of how. 

Joe Walker: Mm-hmm. 

Matt Webster: You know? And so how do you get to a culture of how? Well, you gotta get over fear.

Joe Walker: Right. 

Matt Webster: There's a culture of no because I don't wanna get in trouble. You do. I don't wanna do something that, you know, again, might land me a, an outsider or I, I have this, other opinion or I, I'll be sitting in the principal's office, the dean's office, for lack of a better term. But if you're doing it with the, the best intent of UF in mind, you still might have a conversation that says, "You know what?

Next time zig versus zag." 

Joe Walker: Mm-hmm. 

Matt Webster: But you're doing it with the best intent, so cool, thank you for the initiative. Right. And, and one of the things I love from the military, we, we do these strack lanes, and you'd get done and, and I'd have like the marks on the card and it would be like, "Great initiative."

" Poor judgment." Yeah. You know? And, and, and you take that judgment side and you go, "Okay, I had the initiative." 

Joe Walker: Yeah. "

Matt Webster: But how do I change my judgment going forward, and make better judgments to go along with the initiative?" Yeah. But they, they said, "Hey, we appreciate what you're trying to do."

Joe Walker: Mm-hmm. 

Matt Webster: Again, back to maybe that was an awkward conversation. How do you do that better? 

Joe Walker: Yeah, yeah. How can we polish the message just a little bit so it lands and- 

Matt Webster: Right, right ... 

Joe Walker: and, not something that you just were inherently born with, right? You've got... Well, I mean- No, 

Matt Webster: I was a dick ... 

Joe Walker: some of it.

Yeah. But, but it's something that you've been able to hone over the years, so you've had, like, these experiences. You mentioned, you know, you started your, adult life really in the military, and, transitioning to construction and, maybe if you could shed a little light on how those experiences really helped shaped, what you're able to provide now.

Matt Webster: Yeah, I mean, the, the, the military was definitely foundational and, learning leadership tenets. was great for that. What it didn't teach you was the emotional intelligence to properly use those tenets, so now I... often talking in front of construction companies like the leadership tool belt, right?

Mm-hmm. And just do I need my big sledgehammer or do I need my tack hammer, right? so leadership's very similar, that, that you've got to pull the right tool out at the right moment and present it in the right way- 

Joe Walker: Mm-hmm ... 

Matt Webster: for it to be the maximum effectiveness. Sure. And when you do that, it is magical, right?

Yeah. And, how you navigate different scenarios. So that was fantastic. You know, I kind of jumped into the construction world and was really lost. I mean, I had the acronyms and vocabulary of military. I had to come back to construction. Yeah. Uh, my, first boss, who knew me beforehand, you know, in college- Mm

was kind of like, "What the hell did I just hire? This is not the person I, knew coming out." but after about a year of, of adjusting, the leadership p- kicked in, and that kind of how do you bring a team together, working within a group, esprit de corps. Mm-hmm. building a common vision.

again, having that goal in mind are all very important aspects of, especially even a, a construction project. Mm-hmm. Like, why are we here? And it's- Mm ... not about quality, it's not about money, it's not about I mean, it is about all those things, but those are the givens. Right. Those are the things...

That's hygiene. That's what we do. 

Joe Walker: Mm-hmm. 

Matt Webster: But when you compare that with a motivation, if you compare that with a bigger picture, a bigger vision- 

Joe Walker: Mm-hmm ... 

Matt Webster: now you get people going in the right direction in a high performing team, and that- Yeah ... is magical. 

Joe Walker: yeah. And, able to build on that, you've developed, really a cottage industry with, event hosting and things like that, that you- Right, yeah

have built together. And, it's very different than a lot of other companies that we've, engaged with on, on how you even approach that, And something as simple as how do you bring cars onto the property, and how do you organize it, and what is the sequence of events, and attention to detail, and all that kind of stuff.

So maybe you can see how that developed a little further and share that story about how you were able to shape that industry as well. 

Matt Webster: what I realized is it wasn't that different to what I was doing before Right, right. It's, it's all project management. It's like- Yeah

oh, project management isn't just construction. Right. Yeah. It's business. Oh, duh. 

Joe Walker: how do we get there, yeah. 

Matt Webster: Yeah. Yeah, exactly. And, and, you know, to that end, the event venue side was really, you know, my wife, Anita, kind of spearheaded that, especially on the client side.

But I was behind the scenes, putting kind of the structure and systems in place. so much of that is her organizational skills, and I learned a ton from her. Back to thinking about the client, their experience. You know, she's an empath, so she, she absorbs that. Right. I'm, I'm really not.

But to see her kind of absorb, like, this is what they really want, this is what they're telling us. 

Joe Walker: Yeah. 

Matt Webster: And so now to be able to sit down with a client and listen, and she's taught me so much about listening and, being that kind of good host, to sit down now with a construction client and be the host- Mm-hmm

kind of like we're gonna host your event- 

Joe Walker: Mm-hmm ... 

Matt Webster: versus build a product. 

Joe Walker: Right. 

Matt Webster: Because, I'm working, if I'm doing renovations, I'm in someone's office or someone's home. Mm-hmm. So now I'm essentially hosting an event. 

Joe Walker: Mm, 

Matt Webster: yeah. And so how do I do that better? You know, how do I- Yeah ... really take into account the things that they're gonna struggle with during the process, during the construction, but also understanding what they want at the end.

I'm working on a project right now with, uh, back on UF campus, and they were like, "Well, what the user really needs is they wanna be able to see what's in the upper cabinets." I'm like- 

Joe Walker: Hmm. Mm-hmm ... 

Matt Webster: so, so they don't need to replace the cabinetry 'cause it looks pretty good from the photos.

And actually we're doing a site visit on Thursday. And I'm like, "Well, yeah, she said she's really wants to see." I'm like, "Okay. Well, that's different." 

Joe Walker: Yeah. 

Matt Webster: Yeah. Now if I'm listening to her on what she needs out of this- Right ... maybe we replace the doors of the existing cabinets, not replace everything in there.

Joe Walker: Yeah. Yeah. 

Matt Webster: Completely different project. 

Joe Walker: Yeah, yeah. What's the goal, what's the scope, 

Matt Webster: but listening, identifying what's the struggle, the concerns- Mm-hmm ... and not just this is how we do it, period. Right. And so the event venue, to kind of bring it back, there's so many event venue spaces.

Like, we, we have our standards, like how we park, sure. Mm-hmm. But depending on the event- That actually dictates how we, do that. 

Joe Walker: Mm-hmm. 

Matt Webster: And so understanding kind of is it a daytime event, is it a nighttime, uh, you know, is it 120 guests or is it 50 guests? 

Joe Walker: Right. 

Matt Webster: All of them dictates the experience and what's the best experience that we can offer.

Joe Walker: Yeah, I can tell you as a user of that- ... it, it's really, it came together really nice. Every time we've been out there, it felt really special and really custom. And, honing that skill set of listening and understanding, I mean, although you know me, pretty well, like Anita, spent the time to really kind of- Yes

unpack what's gonna make this not just another night, but something really memorable. So, honing those skills is, has been pretty cool to watch. 

Matt Webster: Yeah, and I think, that is that's the enjoyment, right? Mm-hmm. Of it, is seeing your group out there just laughing it up and the dance off- Oh, yeah

you know, with- Yeah. ... the gift exchange and, sitting around the fire with th- the wishes and making sure that, you know, that was bus- that brings a lot of joy to us- Sure ... when we see the interactions and those moments. And so if you're invested in your client, if you're invested in, in the experience that you're gonna deliver, I mean, that investment pays back off to us.

Mm-hmm. You know, monetarily, sure. Great word of mouth, you know, and, and... But if you, if you're worried about the experience and that investment of your client's experience, the money's gonna come. Right. If all I worried about was the money and, and kinda saying, "I've gotta make this margin"- 

Joe Walker: Mm-hmm ... 

Matt Webster: you wouldn't have that experience.

Joe Walker: Oh, yeah. Not at all. Yeah, 

Matt Webster: and- And, and it, it's directly applies to our industry, too. If all I worry about is making the dollar- 

Joe Walker: Yeah ... 

Matt Webster: we lose the experience, and great. I have a job versus multiple jobs. 

Joe Walker: Right. Right. Yeah, and then it's one and done, right? Yep. So yeah. So, the thing that's exciting, I think is, you know, you continue to build on this career, and you got to apply that at a scale that very few people do at such a large organization.

I mean, you were, helping, uh, the University of Florida transition to a different way to deliver projects. And, that was scary for a lot of folks, and- Yes. ... there, there was, uh, a a lot of things happening. So maybe you can unpack that a little bit for us. 

Matt Webster: Sure. And absolutely. You, you talk about any kind of- bureaucratic system and people get set in their ways, and they're comfortable.

Joe Walker: Mm-hmm. And, 

Matt Webster: and the, "Hey, I just wanna do this." And, and they- Right ... it's kind of like the mouse and the cheese, right? Like a, a cheese station, "Hey, baby, I, this is where I go. I just keep doing this, I'm happy." so to come in and kind of, one, kind of set the stage. Like- Mm-hmm ... here's the issue.

and- Mm-hmm ... there were some of those kind of adult conversations. We did a retreat, and it was before I was in the AVP position, interim AVP position. And just the facilitator, and it was discussed with leadership before I brought this up, but, uh, you know, ultimately PDC had lost the trust with UF leadership and the board of trustees.

Joe Walker: Mm-hmm. 

Matt Webster: And we sat in that retreat, and we put that on the board. And we had people in the audience, you know, the PDC group, it's an internal retreat, kind of go, "We've lost the trust of the board of trustees?" 

Joe Walker: Mm-hmm. 

Matt Webster: And the answer is yes. It's a single word answer. 

Joe Walker: Yeah. 

Matt Webster: Yes. 

Joe Walker: That's hard to hear, and it's scary.

Matt Webster: It is. 

Joe Walker: Yeah. 

Matt Webster: And you, and you have the uncomfortable silence with it. 

Joe Walker: Yeah. 

Matt Webster: Yes. Think about 

Joe Walker: it. Yeah. 

Matt Webster: and what you're hoping for is the next question is, "Well, what do we do?" 

Inherently human nature is the next question is, "Well, how did that happen?" 

Joe Walker: Right. 

Matt Webster: And if you have to ask that question, then you don't have the self-awareness.

Joe Walker: Yeah. 

Matt Webster: the question needs to be, "Well, how do we gain it back?" Or these... You know, let's start working on getting it back. It's been lost- Mm-hmm ... whether that's you or someone else. 

Joe Walker: Right. 

Matt Webster: So kind of setting that, the problem phase, right? Here, here is the challenge we're up against. So we can't stay status quo.

Joe Walker: Mm-hmm. 

Matt Webster: So as a group, what do we need to do to get better? Mm-hmm. How do we gain the trust back? And so then the year-long mission from that retreat was gaining the trust back, and we spent the second half of the day we small grouped it, got engagement on what do we need to do to build the trust back.

Joe Walker: Mm-hmm. 

Matt Webster: And a lot of great ideas, but part of being able to have buy-in in the change was obviously having a realization of the problem, but also then buy-in participation with what those solutions could be. 

Joe Walker: Right. 

Matt Webster: And so we took that information and went back, worked as a leadership group to develop the plan, and then initiated the plan.

and put it into motion. A big part of that then was transparency. Mm-hmm. Weekly meetings. 

Joe Walker: Yeah. "

Matt Webster: This is where we're going. This is what we're gonna do over the next three months." Let's break it down to bite-sized goals. Okay, in the next three months we're gonna accomplish these three things.

This is how we're gonna do that. I think one of the, kinda neatest things we did is Monday mornings we'd have a stand-up meeting in the lobby. Mm-hmm. 

Joe Walker: And 

Matt Webster: it was a leadership meeting, and it was, four things that you're gonna cover in this for each of the, the key leaders.

any meetings that we should all know about. 

Any issues that you're having that you need help with or that we should know about. Mm-hmm. 

what's one goal for yourself, and what's one goal for the team this week? Nice. 

Joe Walker: Yeah. 

Matt Webster: And we did it in 15 minutes, standing meeting in the lobby. Mm-hmm. And it was in the lobby, so anyone could come participate.

So it wasn't on their calendars, but we let them know when the meeting was. And so everyone else within PDC could come out and, and participate in that, but the leaders were the only ones. And they, they said those four things, and it was around the circle, very direct to the point. We got done in 15 minutes.

Sometimes it went a little bit longer, but in general, no more than a half hour, and it was every Monday. That started to create that buy-in and transparency. This is what we're doing. Right. This is where we're going. We're okay- 

Joe Walker: Yeah ... 

Matt Webster: with the change. This is how we're going to evolve. and all those things combined, helped solidify the change going forward for that group to restructure into a team-based, structure versus a very kind of, uh, flat line which was just major projects, minor projects.

Now we went to colleges. Mm-hmm. You're going to be, over the Health Science Center and College of Veterinary Medicine, or you're gonna be over CLAS, the College of Liberal Arts and Science. You're gonna be over the direct service organizations and auxiliary, and we had a team now focused on that.

Joe Walker: Mm-hmm. 

Matt Webster: And so restructured the whole department to get to those teams a- and created different leadership roles, but all very transparent. got their buy-in at the beginning, identified the problem, and then continued to communicate throughout where that change was going and what it was leading us to.

Joe Walker: Absolutely. Yeah. from the consulting side, what we could immediately see was that foundational change led to setting up projects for success much better. Yes. Almost right out of the gate, right? So- 

Matt Webster: Yes ... 

Joe Walker: the one that, uh, well, we've shared several since you were there, but, I'm looking at, like, h- UF housing project, Mm-hmm ... very large capital expenditure, lots of beds very quickly, quick decisions. , In the previous version of, PDC, those decisions were really hard. Yeah. Hard to stick to, hard to make. and what we immediately saw in, this new, uh, approach to delivering a project is that foundational shift allowed those decisions to be, More clearly communicated.

What is the implication of this? do we all have the right information to, to move forward? And then we made decisions that stick, right? And as a team. So, it was pretty exciting to see the kind of the payoff so quickly, uh, of a lot of that. so maybe you can talk about how, shifting the mindset of that team was able to transition, how you're able to deliver projects in that environment.

Matt Webster: in good bureaucratic fashion- ... you know, the typical mindset is to create more checklists, to- Right ... create kind of more process, to create, more of that, no failure points, right? Mm-hmm. We, we... and so even part of the transparency was, you know, what, "Hey, I'm gonna fall down, and I'm gonna scrape my knee, and I'm gonna expect y'all to pick me up."

Joe Walker: Mm-hmm. "I'm, 

Matt Webster: I'm gonna do that as the leader." 

Joe Walker: Mm-hmm. "And 

Matt Webster: you're gonna fall down, and I'm gonna pick you up." 

Joe Walker: Yeah. 

Matt Webster: But i- it wasn't that we're in trouble. It's back to, "Hey, yeah, that's gonna happen, but if we're not making decisions, we're not moving forward. And if we're skinning the front of our knee, that means we're moving forward."

Joe Walker: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. 

Matt Webster: You know? And so i- it was empowering those team leaders to make those decisions, letting them know that it was safe. If it was a wrong decision, that's okay. Mm-hmm. to, let's talk about it. If it's, the right intent, that's okay. 

Joe Walker: Right. 

Matt Webster: You know? We, we can adapt and shift.

but the empowerment was the big part of it. Like- Mm-hmm ... you know, and, and getting the team leads a- and getting to that empowerment stage was huge then for the decision making. And even one of the things, you know, with talking with you from the board of trustees, it's like you have high-level people making low-level decisions.

Joe Walker: Right. 

Matt Webster: So how do you get the decision to the right level? And- Mm-hmm ... and part of that's letting go as a leader and trusting- Mm-hmm ... the people around you, but also realizing they're gonna make mistakes. And guess what? Sure. We're not gonna get fired by them. 

Joe Walker: Mm-hmm. 

Matt Webster: but setting the boundaries that, again, you don't have catastrophic mistakes, you know?

Right, right. 

Joe Walker: Yeah. We got guardrails on there. 

Matt Webster: We got guardrails, yeah. So it's not just free range. That, that's not- Yeah ... the, the intent. The intent is to by creating those guardrails, the bumpers, you're actually giving freedom. 

Joe Walker: Mm-hmm. 

Matt Webster: But checklists don't. You know, checklists and like I have to follow this guideline and this, you know, process to the T then creates robots, and no one's- Right

thinking, and no one's willing to make a decision. So the structure in itself helped create that kind of autonomy and some of that, leeway to make decisions and, and then backing them up, to do that, I, I think was key. 

Joe Walker: with all that clarity and thinking, and to your point about, having the right level of leadership make the right decision a- and- Yeah

the right level of involvement. the noise of big complicated projects like the housing project became- Yes ... easier to achieve. Like, how do you think the question, for the student experience, for example, right? Mm-hmm. 

Matt Webster: Mm-hmm. 

Joe Walker: Who, who was in charge of that question? And, is that a, a, planning, design, and construction project manager?

Is, like, is that what they're championing, or is that, different level of engagement? You know, housing had a big hand in that. And kind of- Right ... letting all the folks that are experts in what they do really do what they do, right? Let them, let them do their job. 

Matt Webster: No, absolutely. And, what is your role within the team?

And then having the humility to not overstep your role boundaries. 

So I'll, kind of use the UF committees here as an example. 

Joe Walker: Yeah, 

Matt Webster: yeah. And, they are recommending committees. 

they have their... It's open governance, and they have their input, and there's some great input.

Joe Walker: Mm-hmm. 

Matt Webster: But it, it is not an approval committee for the University of Florida. 

Joe Walker: Right. 

Matt Webster: And so it was almost a reset for some of those committees in having to have the conversation around you're a recommending body- 

Joe Walker: Mm-hmm ... 

Matt Webster: not a full approval body. 

Joe Walker: Right. Right. 

Matt Webster: And so having the humility to say, "Hey, I'm just recommending," and/or the- Mm

the fortitude for- Yeah ... people within leadership to go to the Senate, you know, basically these committees that are governed by the Senate, and kind of reposition what their role is- 

Joe Walker: Mm-hmm ... 

Matt Webster: so that those decisions didn't hold up a project. 

Joe Walker: Right. 

Matt Webster: that was another big one of how do you get through these commi- committees would build up projects for months.

But wait a minute, what's the best for the university? 

Joe Walker: Right. Yeah, 

Matt Webster: and, and- Right? And somebody needs to make that decision and not be scared to make the decision for what's best. 

Joe Walker: Sure, yeah. And you gotta balance that input. And the- Mm-hmm ... 

Matt Webster: committees 

Joe Walker: have a, a wonderful role because they're focused on a particular topic.

Matt Webster: Correct. 

Joe Walker: Correct. They're bringing the right questions to the table, right? 

Matt Webster: Yes. 

Joe Walker: Yes. And making sure that we're talking about them. 

Matt Webster: And influencing. Yeah. I- yes. Yeah. Absolutely. Yes. Absolutely. 

Joe Walker: So it was... it's a nice balance. And to kind of, get the best result when you have all the input, and you have all these competing needs, and, uh, it can't be a singular, like, siloed decision and it's this one point that's gonna drive the whole project.

Matt Webster: Correct. 

Joe Walker: It's an ecosystem of all of it, so. 

Matt Webster: say that, I think it's, you know, to, to bring up the Graham Woods project You know, we talk ecosystem in a single point. Like, you could point to single trees and say, "We can't move that one tree." Well, guess what? That's in the middle of the new retention pond that is- Right

the best thing for the whole ecosystem- 

Joe Walker: Mm-hmm ... 

Matt Webster: to go. So yeah, that one tree's gonna have to come out. It will be a sacrifice, but it's creating a better ecosystem, water management system. please, the, the folks out there, don't, don't quote me on my, my terminology here. the point being is, there were Matt Websters at that meeting that were vehemently against taking out a tree, and it's like- Mm

but that's not the best thing for the overall system- 

Joe Walker: Right ... 

Matt Webster: to function properly through Lake Alice and then through wherever- Mm-hmm ... Lake, Lake Alice goes. it's making it- Yeah ... better. And then, again, back to making, those hard decisions when people are opposing you, but- Right ... understanding the big picture on what's best.

Joe Walker: Yeah. What, what's the best decision for the whole organization- Organization, yeah ... moving forward. Yeah. And not just for today. Like, we can all- Right ... make a decision that feels good right now, and sometimes the hardest- Right ... decision is what's gonna feel good for the next 50 or 100 years, right? And- 

Matt Webster: Absolutely

Joe Walker: making sure that you're gathering all the data and asking the right questions to g- Right ... to get to that point. So, honing that skill is what's setting these projects up for success, so, um- 

Matt Webster: Absolutely. 

a true leader is going to make those hard decisions and not try to appease everyone or the masses or what...

You know, y- you're in that position, and there are difficult times and there's, there are combative people, or you could say, adverse situations. But that's part of being a good leader is to be able to read through that, understand the greater goal- Yeah ... make that decision in a timely fashion, and stand by that going forward and support the people around you.

Joe Walker: Yeah, and to be able to look back in five, 10 years and go, "You know what?" And say, "

Matt Webster: That was the right decision." "

Joe Walker: That was the right one." Yeah. Yeah. And it, and it wasn't made, building around a light pole, right? And it's like- Yeah, right. 

Matt Webster: Yeah ... you move 

Joe Walker: the light pole, and it's okay, yeah?

And, you know, you can redesign that but the, bigger move is what's more important, so. 

Matt Webster: A- and for everyone out there, sometimes the right move is to design the building around the tree. 

Joe Walker: Yeah, absolutely, yeah. That 

Matt Webster: definitely- And so it's, this isn't a, you know, it, but it's weighing all that throughout.

Joe Walker: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. And, and it is, again, going back to that same point of- Let's ask the question- Yes ... and let's have a, a healthy debate- 

Matt Webster: Understanding. Mm-hmm ... and, 

Joe Walker: and, you know, make sure that we've got all the information, and, and we do thoroughly understand the problem we're trying to solve, and then always judging it against is this improving the s- the- Mm-hmm

student life experience? Is this improving how the university functions? Is this making a long-term decision that's, something that can grow and change as trends change, right? Or- 

Matt Webster: Right ... 

Joe Walker: or am I backed into a corner, right? And, making sure that we're asking all those questions, so. 

Matt Webster: Absolutely.

Joe Walker: that's really, you know, the, core of a lot of what we talk about in this podcast is, quote-unquote, "agile mindset" is about collecting all of that information, laying it on the table, and agnostically looking at it, and saying- Yes ... "This is all the data that we have. What does the data actually say?

Now what's the best long-term play," right? And, and that's- Yes ... how you kind of work those things together. And, there's a lot of folks that really struggle with that kind of conversation and that kind of decision, making mindset. but I think at the end it almost always pays off, Yes ... because, you can say, "You remember those five conversations we had?

This is how they all came together. and this is the direction we're moving in. Does that make sense now?" "Oh, yeah, that does. Yeah." 

Matt Webster: Right. 

Joe Walker: So. 

Matt Webster: Well, a- and having the humility to change your opinion. 

Joe Walker: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. New 

Matt Webster: data. Like y- you might have gone into, like, "Well, this is- Yeah ... this is what we should do," and then you collect this data and you go, "Eh."

Joe Walker: Yeah. "

Matt Webster: That's not the right thing." You know? Right. And, and you have to kinda put your ego aside and, and- Mm-hmm ... and go, "You know what? I was wrong." 

Joe Walker: Oh, totally. Yeah. 

Matt Webster: Yeah. You know, and say, "Okay, yeah, you've convinced me. that is a better way to do it." You know? Yeah. And, now a- again, if you're, operating in that kind of mindset that you're willing to be wrong- 

Joe Walker: Mm-hmm

Matt Webster: if you're willing to look yourself in the mirror and kinda go, "You know what? Those are better ideas," it's the confident person that puts smarter people around them. 

Joe Walker: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Surround yourself with the smart people. 

Matt Webster: Right. Right. 

Joe Walker: That's for sure. Yeah. So- 

Matt Webster: Yeah ... 

Joe Walker: you know, that kinda feeds into, okay, now you have, you've had a lot of these conversations, you've gathered a lot of data, a project direction is set.

What, what kinda keeps the momentum going? And, what keeps people energized to stay on track? 

Matt Webster: Yeah. I think, it's how do you transition leadership, too. Like, because- Mm-hmm ... uh, uh, you know, let's take a, a project cycle of pre-construction to construction to post \, if you have a really large project and you're transitioning from structure to finishes and kind of the superintendent lead might change or the management lead might change.

This is where I think, you know, having that bigger goal in mind, um, and this is a lot of what I learned from, you know, Brad Pollet and doing some stuff with U of Health, projects with them, where what is the unifying goal? Mm-hmm. And, and kinda hone this with velocity and, and we did these teaming sessions.

it's back to, budget, schedule. Like, th- none of that can be within the mantra or the mission. 

Joe Walker: Mm-hmm. 

Matt Webster: so what, what is the bigger mission for said project? And we were doing a freestanding ED, it was actually up in Virginia. and the kind of the mantra or the mission that we put on the banner outside was, "Build it like your loved one might use it one day."

Joe Walker: Yeah. 

Matt Webster: nothing to do with construction. but if, if I'm gonna carry that momentum through, and if we keep that mantra going, you know, and it might seem cheesy and some people are like, "Oh, you know, this isn't gonna work." You know, guess what? If I impact 30% of the people that walk on that site and they look at that s- you know, mantra, and they go, "You know what?

Yeah, I, I live in this community. I'm actually down the road. My mom might, might need that. She's getting older." Like, And they put in an extra 30% of their discretionary effort. 

Joe Walker: Oh, wow. Yeah. 

Matt Webster: Like- that's awesome, right? Yeah. so yeah, I, I don't need everyone to buy in. 

Joe Walker: Mm-hmm. 

Matt Webster: If I can get 50% to buy in and carry that mantra forward and that, they put in a little bit extra effort- Mm-hmm

because of it, that's a win in a project, and it's so hard to measure. Yeah. I tell you, Joe, it's... I, I've worked with, you know, Rinker at UF on, I could get a grad student, doctoral student, like, how do you measure, like, quantifiably measure a high-performing team? We feel it. Mm. We can feel those teams that were with you.

Like, I wanna go back to that team. I... That was a great, you know, experience. Back to the experience. We worked together. but, you know, how do you measure that through to keep the momentum going? And when you see it starting to wane, kind of that all hands meeting or bring the leaders back together.

You know, kind of, what are we losing here, you know? And, is there a bad apple or is it just a time to motivate, is it a redirection? Is it a, let's get that inspiration back into why we're doing this, to carry a project through. You know, there's lots of different reasons why it might wind down or, or diminish.

the key is, like, one, understanding it's diminishing. Two, root cause on why it's diminishing. And then three, doing something about it to- 

Joe Walker: Mm-hmm ... 

Matt Webster: to bring it back up and get it back online. 

Joe Walker: Yeah, and actually taking action. 

Matt Webster: Exactly. 

Joe Walker: Yeah. 

Matt Webster: Exactly. 

Joe Walker: And not just- And 

Matt Webster: sometimes it's removing someone.

Like, someone on the site might be just the wrong fit they're not believing in, in what that mission is. Mm-hmm. They might be acting in their own self-interest versus the project interest. You know- Mm-hmm ... those are all things that can happen that y- you know, understanding root causes. 

Joe Walker: Yeah.

And even adding someone in. You know, like, I'm really feeling that I just need a cheerleader. I need someone that really- Yeah ... rallies the group and- 

Matt Webster: Yep ... 

Joe Walker: and I just don't see that. So let, let's bring that person to the party and, make it, uh, make it happen. So- 

there's a lot of that. And, and I love solving that puzzle.

It's, it's- Yeah, 

Matt Webster: the people puzzle. 

Joe Walker: Yeah, yeah. have all these experiences and, different scales of companies and things like that. So, I'm wondering what kind of, advice would you give architects and consultants about, maybe what they misunderstand about, big, complex owners, and how can they perform better?

Like, what would you, uh, throw out there? 

Matt Webster: Sure. And, you know, I, I heard this term from Sydney, at UF. She's a university architect, and she's, like, " it's good to work with an owner's architect." 

Joe Walker: Mm. Mm-hmm. 

Matt Webster: And, and I said, "Okay, well, you know, what, what do you mean?" Like, being a contractor, I'm like, "What do you mean by that?"

And she's... A- it's back to listening, right? Mm-hmm. It, it's an architect that listens to what we're trying to accomplish and not designing the vision in their head. 

Joe Walker: Right. 

Matt Webster: And so, yeah, th- there is a vision, but then how does it fit with what the owner really needs out of it? 

Joe Walker: Yeah. 

Matt Webster: You know? And sometime it is a grandiose, beautiful exterior design, and sometimes it's a square building with punch-out windows because they- Yeah

just need 

Joe Walker: space. Meets the need, yeah, yeah. 

Matt Webster: Right. And, having the mindset to really be open to what the owner's trying to accomplish, back to that listening. What ex- you know, what, what is the end goal? 

and focusing in on delivering that versus, the either what you've always done, these are the systems we know work.

Right. We're only gonna put in this type of copper piping, uh, for the water- Mm-hmm ... because we know. You know, like, okay, wait a minute. Like, we're doing an admin space for 20 years. Do I need copper piping, you know? Right. 

Joe Walker: Yeah. S- 

Matt Webster: you know, I think really kind of, centering in on that, and then relying on your, your, I would say, contractor and trade partners.

I think- 

Joe Walker: Mm-hmm ... 

Matt Webster: the, the, the good, you know, kinda consulting groups, and absolutely put you in this, this grouping will listen to what the trades person in the field has to say on what's the best way to do it. 

Joe Walker: Yeah. 

Matt Webster: You know? And, they might not understand the bigger picture and, and it might not be applicable all the time, but, there's- Mm-hmm

a good chunk of the time that their ideas carry- Really good merit, trying to get that design input along the way, through either the, the CMs, your, your GCs. But, you know, it's a full team, that's there to, to give it. Uh, you know, back to Brad Paul at the ring of risk.

Like, we're all- Mm-hmm ... there trying to get this project accomplished, but if we let one fail, then the whole project fails. 

Joe Walker: Oh, yeah. Yeah, 

Matt Webster: yeah. You know, so we're all there to, to be part of that. There's no one hero leader that can do it all. 

Joe Walker: Right. Yeah, you, you need a, complete ecosystem of people to- Mm-hmm

to function at a really high level, and everyone's gonna have an energy spike at the right point to kind of keep the momentum moving forward. And, and that's what it takes, right? but you gotta- 

Matt Webster: Yeah ... 

Joe Walker: trust each other. 

Matt Webster: Yes ... 

Joe Walker: and you gotta be willing to listen, and you gotta be willing to say, "Oh, boy, I thought I had the right idea, but, maybe not so much."

Matt Webster: Right. Right. Well, a- and, you know, there are definitely times in my career that I have not felt that I had the professional respect from my consultants on certain projects. 

Joe Walker: Mm-hmm. 

Matt Webster: You know? Like, "Oh, you're just the contractor." 

Joe Walker: Ah, yes. You're, 

Matt Webster: I- I'm here to protect the owner, you're not.

Joe Walker: Right. 

Matt Webster: You're here to screw them. Yeah, and all you subs out there, I'm not here, pressing my thumb on what you're doing, then it's never gonna get done. Right. And I'm not gonna say that hasn't... Like, we all have been part of those projects, but also realizing when you have a true teammate. 

Joe Walker: Oh, yeah. 

Matt Webster: You know? And, and embracing you know, back to a high-performing team. When you have a high-performing team, you, you know it, it's just, y- how do you measure it? It's, it's- Uh, 

Joe Walker: uh, yeah, yeah. You can feel it, but right, how do I write it down?

Yeah, yeah. How 

Matt Webster: do I 

Joe Walker: recreate it every time, right? And- 

Matt Webster: Yes ... 

Joe Walker: that, takes a lot of work, and it takes a lot of intention. So 

Matt Webster: I think that's a key word on the intention there, right? 'Cause if- 

Joe Walker: Mm-hmm ... 

Matt Webster: you expect it to be a high-performing team, even if you've worked together before, you're setting yourself up for failure.

Joe Walker: Yeah. 

Matt Webster: You have to be intentional each time you come together to say, "How are we going to interact?" 

Joe Walker: Yeah. Yeah. 

Matt Webster: how are we gonna get better? 

Joe Walker: Yep. And how are we gonna focus on, you know, making this the best long-term decision? It always goes back to that. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, and kind of filter through that noise of what happens every day.

I mean, feelings get ruffled, and communication- Yep ... gets skewed, and information catches people off guard left and right. It's like, "Oh, my gosh-" Yep ... "the cost has exploded and you're evil." It's a no- Right. Right, right, right ... it's actually not that. Right. It's, "This was unexpected. let's kind of take it apart.

Let's look at the information. How do we put it back on track?" So- 

Matt Webster: Yep, 

Joe Walker: yep ... um, and that's the most important thing. So, you know, as we kind of, Land the plane on this one a little bit. I, I'm thinking, you know, for higher education leaders and project teams working on, any big complex project, whether that's housing- Mm

or a big lab building or anything, what, what might be a one shift in thinking or mindset that can help them make better decisions, not only for themselves but for the team, for the user group, for the entity of the, the university or, big, complex thing? 

Matt Webster: Mm-hmm. 

Joe Walker: Yeah. 

Matt Webster: I, I, I think the realization of how impactful their interactions are on the culture of the team.

Joe Walker: Mm. Mm-hmm. 

Matt Webster: So i- sitting in that past position, that interim AVP, how I interacted with the team dictated how the team interacted with each other. 

Joe Walker: Oh, yeah. 

Matt Webster: Right? Right. And so if I came in very adversarial pointing the fingers- 

Joe Walker: Mm-hmm ... 

Matt Webster: and blaming people, then the whole team blamed each other.

Joe Walker: Right. 

Matt Webster: If I came in and, and kind of put my arms around the group and said, "Okay. Yep." A- and you kind of mentioned it, like, "We got an issue." 

Joe Walker: Mm-hmm. "

Matt Webster: Yep, it's a budget I'm not gonna blow up, but, but how do we fix it? 'Cause th- you know- Mm ... this is what we got. This is where we're at. You know, team, how, how are we gonna get this done?

Who's gonna take what lead? We're here together to fix it." Right. It's completely different than, "I can't believe you turned in this number. This is F'd." either the design's wrong or your numbers are wrong or whatever, but me as the owner, I'm not paying any more than this amount. Go fix it." Right.

Joe Walker: Yeah. 

Matt Webster: Completely different. Yeah. You know? It is. Yeah. and so I, I can kind of come in and, kind of throw the gauntlet on the table and walk out of the room in 15 minutes, and then I'm on my next thing and I just... I left the problem with the team and they're gonna solve it. 

Joe Walker: Yeah. 

Matt Webster: The reality is the solution is probably four to six months down the road if we even ever get there, versus let me take four hours, let me call a group meeting, let's sit down at the table, let's figure out where we're at, let me show, lead by example, how we work together interactively and as partners. 

Joe Walker: Mm-hmm. 

Matt Webster: The solution's probably gonna be a month or two away. 

Joe Walker: Hmm. Mm-hmm. 

Matt Webster: Right? But I'm gonna invest more time up front to get a quicker solution, and the reality is I'm gonna invest the same amount of time either way, but now my project isn't four, six, eight months late.

Joe Walker: Yeah. Yeah. Or a year or more, right? Is- 

Matt Webster: But my job as an owner on these big complex jobs is to keep the team together and the team performing at the highest level because I am the pinnacle of the team's culture. 

Joe Walker: Mm-hmm. Yeah. And how can you rally the, the team to put their best skill set to use, right?

Matt Webster: Right. 

and then removing roadblocks. Yeah. Like what roadblocks is the team having? What do I have the power to influence to remove those roadblocks? 

Joe Walker: Yeah. No, that, that's fantastic. I, I appreciate that insight, and I think a lot of people listening to this will maybe reset, how they might communicate and say, "Hey, let's, let's figure out how we're actually working together to get the best result possible," and- 

Matt Webster: Absolutely.

So- It, it's so underrated- 

Joe Walker: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. 

Matt Webster: So- ... in 

Joe Walker: the 

Matt Webster: success of a project. 

Joe Walker: So I'm inspired by that, so I appreciate that you're able to kind of share that filter. And, I'd be remiss, to not mention that you have a new venture, right? And you get to kind of reconstruct, a new way to serve your community from the ground up, and, bring all your lessons learned and, kind of set you up for success.

So maybe if you wanna just share the story of Sterling just a little bit. 

Matt Webster: Thank you. so Rob and I worked together, you know, at, our previous employer. He was in my division. He went out and started his own thing with Sterling Builders Group. he got to the point of deciding he wants to focus on residential.

Mm-hmm. And so he's gonna let the commercial kind of just, close up. And so I, uh, I was actually at the end of my four-year non-compete, so I was able- Mm-hmm ... to kind of get back in the market. And, so bought the commercial side and, and really kind of calling it a fixer-upper a- at this point- Yeah

in time. Yeah, yeah. But yeah, excited to be back in the community. And I think, you know, as I kind of went on this journey, and I was traveling a lot with consulting and really helping companies out, at the same time I lost a sense of community. 

Joe Walker: Mm. Yeah. 

Matt Webster: You know, I didn't mind the travel, but I, I missed my family. So that was a part of it, but I lost the sense of community. And so when I really looked at it, I, said three things as I kind of wanna take the last chapter of my life professionally and kind of say, okay, I need something that's, you know, kind of... it's gonna build some kind of equity in something a- at this- Mm-hmm

point in time in my life. That's, part of it. I need something that's fulfilling to me, and, fulfillment is really about kind of building the teams, building leaders, helping people develop. I, I really enjoy that, that aspect on the consulting side, but really being part of community.

And so to now own a construction company, with my partner Anthony Lyons, in the Gainesville community here a- and kind of went back. It's a bell curve to a certain extent. 

Joe Walker: Mm-hmm. 

Matt Webster: we just won a UF continuing service contract, and we were 15 out of 15. We were the last- Oh ... spot. 

Joe Walker: Yeah. Congratulations. 

Matt Webster: Ma- just barely made it.

Yeah. No, thank you. Yeah. Just barely made it. 

Joe Walker: Yeah. 

Matt Webster: But that in itself was very humbling and motivating to bring the things we've talked about so that in six years when that renews, my goal is not to be 15. 

Joe Walker: Right. Yeah, yeah. Moving on up. Yeah. 

Matt Webster: Uh, excited to bring the experience, a good experience of construction- Mm-hmm

to clients in the Gainesville area, and really not looking to, to build some huge, company, but just be a really good Gainesville builder. A, a, a sophisticated- Yeah ... community builder focused here in the Gainesville area- Mm-hmm ... but bringing a different approach of, how to enjoy the process.

Joe Walker: Right. Right. 'Cause it can be an enjoyable process. It can be- Yes ... a lot of fun. What we do is we get to, doodle and play in the dirt. It's super fun, and- 

Matt Webster: Right ... we 

Joe Walker: just want that to go to plan and to have folks really excited about that. So that's- 

Matt Webster: Right ... 

Joe Walker: that's a lot that, motivates us. 

Matt Webster: Well, and creating structures that do ma- so many great things.

Joe Walker: Mm-hmm. Yeah. 

Matt Webster: You know, whether that's through design, the build itself. Actually, we're doing a, a home renovation. I, I've never done a home renovation. But it's just kind of part of the process right now. 

Joe Walker: Yeah. 

Matt Webster: But excited, you know, to see, you know, their excitement to see something getting started 

Joe Walker: too.

Mm-hmm. Yeah. That's awesome. Yeah. And, all those carry relationships with you that you're probably gonna hold onto for a lifetime, and- Absolutely ... the stories we build together. So, a lot of what we've talked about today I'm sure has gotten people pretty interested and curious to know more.

So if someone's interested in talking to you, how do they get ahold of you? 

Matt Webster: Yeah. They can reach out via email is probably the best way, you know- Mm-hmm ... and, and, and make contact, uh, through the email, and, we can set something up. But yeah, happy to have the conversations and, really enjoy it. And, I know I learn from all of these too, so it's, uh, a gift that I like to receive, so thank you.

Joe Walker: Sweet. Yeah. Well, thanks for being a guest today, and, uh, really appreciate it. And, definitely looking forward to working with you for many, many years to come. 

Matt Webster: Absolutely. Absolutely. Thanks, Joe. 

Joe Walker: Thanks, Matt.